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May 30, 2007

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Steve Sailer

I took Canada's immigration points test in 2001 ... and failed. I wrote about it for UPI in "Canada Doesn't Want Me:"

http://www.isteve.com/Canada_Doesnt_Want_Me.htm

guest

The proposed point system may be beneficial to the U.S. economy, but it's extremely inefficient from a global perspective. It would strip third world countries of their most valuable citizens (brain drain), while preventing unskilled labor from coming here and significantly boosting their output (low-skilled jobs vs. subsistence agriculture).

jimbino

Just another thing that the gummint can't do right. Why is there age discrimination in the rules?

Anon't expect to see many female immigrants, especially in the STEM categories. Not even England and Germany could manage to export any, since they hardly have enough in their own countries. How many female STEM applicants does anyone expect from countries likely to be sources of candidates?

How about a system in which each Amerikan gets to select an immigrant in his lifetime. And every Amerikan without kids can select immigrants in lieu of the missing kids?

How about giving me an option to trade my USSA residency rights with a foreigner from, say, Brazil. The USSA could gain a young worker and I could retire to paradise!

alex

GB: "you will see that applicants with a science, technology, engineering or math background (STEM in the bill's jargon) are going to get an awful lot of points"

While that's an improvement over the current de facto policy of permitting large numbers of (often illegal) low-paying skills immigrants, simply assuming that anybody with some sort of STEM skills is in a field where there is a particularly strong demand is utter nonsense.

This is the sort of nonsense that we've been hearing ever since Sputnik. The latest variant is about how India and China produce more STEM graduates than the US. Aside from the obvious point that India and China have 3x and 4x the US population, they never mention how many of those graduates actually get to use their skills. The assumption is also made that we're supply-side constrained in the US (objective evidence be damned).

It's this sort of thinking that led to the H-1B guest worker program. Admittedly the proposed bill is better because it's for LPR's rather than guest workers, but it still suffers from a serious problem. Preference is given to people with skills that are simply assumed to be in short supply, or skills that political and media savvy parties (eg Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Tata) claim are in short supply. In either case the shortage claim is made without reference to objective evidence, or even if it's directly contradicted by evidence.

What if there is a greater demand for accountants than computer programmers? The STEM requirements will favor the programmers anyway.

By contrast, Australia has a system where people with the skills currently in greatest demand are given preference. I don't know the details, but understand that hair stylists are amongst those currently on the preferred list. Why hair stylists? I don't know. Maybe there is an Australian cultural bias that considers it demeaning work, whatever the remuneration. Maybe all that sun and surf requires more frequent styling.

Of course, whatever Australia's exact system, there should be a debate in the US about the best way to determine the skills preference. Do we start with the highest paid people? The ones whose pay is rising fastest? Whatever it is, there should be an objective formula to determine this, rather than relying on assumptions, political influence and media hype.

Mariana

What makes you think the point systems would not benefit Mexicans? There are many college graduates in Mexico that aspire to go to grad school and many do. The reason you find more Chinese or Indian students is that the total population is 10000 times greater approx. Furthermore, not all low skill immigrants are Mexicans (which you are implying), without considering illegal immigrants from other Latin American countries, European and Asian coutnries.
Your affirmations, without even showing supporting data are crude generalizations.

Mexican=uneducated illegal immigrant.

That's not a very scientific argument.

Chris

I agree w/ alex's comment and want to add to that. As long as the government is determining what skills are needed, (at best) there will be a lag between the need today and fufillment tomorrow. The mechanism economists most often trot out to ration scarce resources is the market price. In this case, wouldn't the market know better than Congress what skills are in demand?

Prab

Some corrections. Mexico's population is 100 million India and China combined are 2.5 Billion so 25 times not 10000 times.

Of course not all Mexicans are unskilled. What makes it different is an unskilled Mexican can simply walk across while a skilled Indian or Chinese engineer spends 10s of thousands to come here (tickets alone for a family of 4 are 8000 dollars). While India and China have a lot more unskilled labor available given the distance it would be too expensive for unskilled Indians and Chinese to come to America. The only unskilled labor which would pay enough to justify the cost of traveling halfway across the world is prostitution and that is culturally taboo in India and China so unskilled labor does not come here from India or China. For comparison the women trafficked from South Korea for prostitution end up paying 20000 to 30000 dollars for the privilege of working in a bay area brothel. Unskilled Indians and Chinese simply dont have 20000 dollars toeven try.

Regarding points for occupations there should be a system where a list of in demand occupations is maintained and updated every 3 months. This should contain both skilled and unskilled occupations. Occupations on this list should get points for being in demand. At the same time the points for education should be conditional on the occupation being on the in demand list.

At the same time USA should try to get away from its addiction to cheap labor via more automation in jobs . This is necessary as given the cost of living in USA people doing unskilled labor lead very bad lives in USA as the money is simply not enough. Increasing wages is not an option as wages cant be more than the economic benefit of the job and some jobs are simply worth less (which is why they should be done by machines not illegals)

The good thing about the point system is that it takes control out of corporate hands and gives it to immigrants. As immigrants wont be at the mercy of employers they wont tolerate a lot of shit they tolerate right now. This improves working conditions for both immigrants and their non immigrant colleagues.

Another thing the points system leaves out is economic strength. It is much easier for a rich person with savings to establish themselves in the new country so some points should be given for the amount of money you are bringing with you. This would avoid people ending up on welfare.

Lastly anyone who has studied in USA whether at high school , college or grad school level is well adjusted to American culture and should be immediately given a green card on graduation instead of having to jump through all these loops

pc

"some jobs are simply worth less"

There's no such thing as a worth less job. If it is worth less, then it is not a job.

Luke Lea

More attention does need to be given to the effects of immigration on the sending countries. Mexico's real per capita GDP stagnated in the mid-80's. If this had anything to do with large-scale immigration into the U.S., it should be part of the debate, especially for so-called bleeding heart liberals, of which I am one btw.

guest

Luke Lea:

Mexican wages are surging due to a shortage of unskilled labor. Any GDP stagnation has been at the expense of unearned rent, with little or no adverse effect on economic incentives.

William E. Mattson

of course granting 1 person citizenship could mean that 9 others (who may never work a day in the United States) would automatically be given the rights to citizenship under the extended family provision. I refer to the spouse, the grandparents and the parents of the new citizen as well as the grandparents and parents of the spouse, all of whom, except the spouse may be to old to work on arrival.

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